Originally published on Angry Snowboarder; June 23, 2009.

Brenton Woo, the man behind Automaton Snowboards has a lot to say about the questions we asked him. Since we’re the ones that are usually talking, we’ve let him give his take on some issues. Check out what he has to say about being based on punk ethos, partnering with SMK snowboard camp, and everything in between.

You were founded on a lot of punk ideologies when you launched back in late 2003, here we are 6 years later and you’re still going strong. Do those original founding principles still ring true and are you still battling with the snowboard industry?

The punk idea I really like most is the DIY (do it yourself) mentality. I like seeing people take the initiative to accomplish their goals, rather than sit around and complain. One thing we have a lot of in America is opportunity. Hard work might not make you successful, but it sure as heck will get you by in this country. I read somewhere that the best way to get something done is to go ahead and do it. I definitely believe that’s true.

Punk is war and the war is on. Because we live snowboarding, what we’re fighting for is our lives, and in the end, we will reclaim what is rightfully ours: snowboarding! As a startup business, Automaton is constantly experiencing growth, and it takes a level of DIY-style motivation to keep things running as smooth as possible because growth tends to be a steady stream of new challenges. For example, logistics solutions one year won’t be the best solution for the next as inventory grows.

One thing I’ve learned in life is that true, authentic creativity generally comes from the vision of a single individual, not a committee. Yes, creative projects may require the orchestrated efforts of many people, but in the end it needs to be a single person’s vision. For example, Steve Jobs tyrannical micro-management style and his crew at Apple give us the iPod, whereas the notoriously vertically integrated Microsoft gives us the Zune. Back to Automaton, I feel that the DIY mentality ensures that our brand and products are authentic, because it comes from a single person’s vision. I’m involved in every aspect of Automaton. I see a lot of snow brands offering really inconsistent product lines. I think it sells because the industry is so small, consumers don’t really have alternate choices.

I’ve said in the past, that every dollar is a vote. People should know and care about where their money goes. Does it go to a company that reinvests in our culture, or to buy the CEO’s kid a new SUV?

The game hasn’t necessarily changed, but my perception of it has become more informed for sure. I think on one level, by staying true to itself, Automaton is doing its part in building the snow industry, but since we’re a small company, our current effect is relatively small as well. But the fact that our boards are moving and we’re experiencing growth tells me that people are responsive to what we’re doing. I know that at our biggest, Automaton can’t realistically directly battle an entire tier 1 company (brands that outfit head-to-toe soft and hardgoods). Automaton can only really compete with them in the snowboard category. But historically, tier 2 companies (specialized brands) tend to be the strongest brands. When you hear “Holden” or “32”, you instantly visualize what the product is. Just like when you hear “Ferrari”. When you hear “Burton” or “Ford”, you need clarification. Boards or jackets? Pickup’s or sedans? If you look at the skate industry, it’s primarily made up of tier 2 brands. I definitely think this is the direction the snow industry needs to take.

You utilize Agents instead of team riders and have claimed that your agency is like fight club. Does this mean you’re Tyler Durden or The Narrator?

Yeah, I may have said that. At one point, Fight Club was my favorite book. Then they turned it into a movie (and did a good job!). Maybe I’d like to be Tyler Durden, he seems like a fairly cool guy. But in terms of being like a boss to a mob of riders, I hope it doesn’t develop into that. The Agent program was modeled after a bunch of ideas. I liked in Fight Club where everyone chooses their own level of participation and you deserve what you earn. One thing I am not is a babysitter, and I am not interested in constantly reminding someone that they work for me. I got the term Agent from the Matrix because in the movie, anyone anywhere at any time can potentially be a powerful Agent. This is true in real life, but instead of being possessed by a computer program, people can be possessed by ideas. But the Agent program is also sentient, so it’s not just blindly following a list of instructions. This is one thing I don’t like in snowboarding: how there’s a lot of shreds who think they’re totally original and different, yet dress, talk, and ride just like everyone else. It’s like they’re not shredding for themselves, they’re doing it to impress other people. So with our Agents, I appreciate people who have the ability to just be themselves. Believe me, to meet people like this is more rare than it sounds. But if they’re approaching Automaton to become an Agent, I already know the first step has been taken.

Someone in the industry once told me that if a brand is cool enough, they don’t have to pay pros to rock it. I think it was 2005, and we were talking about Grenade and when Eddie Wall moved to Forum. He was forced to drop Grenade because of his contract with Four Square, and previous to that, Grenade didn’t have contracts with any of their riders. But, Grenade was THE hottest brand in snowboarding at the time. People wanted to be associated with Grenade. And this is the biggest problem with the pro endorsement structure in snowboarding. Pros are paid to support a brand. So how can their opinion be trusted? Snowboarding is mostly subjective in that it’s based mainly on style, not performance. I think a great question for totally valid endorsement is to ask pros which brands they would choose to rock if they weren’t getting paid. And this is another key aspect of our Agents: we don’t pay them. I’m not into buying loyalty. They’re with Automaton because they choose to be.

There seems to be a bit of bias against older riders in the industry, do you think it’s a good idea to give seasoned riders the boot or should they be kept around for their vast wealth of knowledge?

Do you mean snowboard pros or just older riders in general? In terms of older pros, I think some of them definitely should be kept on to help steer our industry. But that’s the thing: there are only a handful of guys who I think deserve to be called professional snowboarders. I’m talking about the a-list pros. Generally, these guys are the ones that don’t see sponsorship as their goal but as a tool to get their point across in snowboarding. For example, Travis Parker is pushing “fun”. From the movies he participated in to the choices he made (leaving K2 for Capita), it was clear that his goal as a pro was to keep snowboarding fun. Then you have guys like JP Walker and Devun Walsh for example. They have so much backcountry filming experience, I think it’d be a waste for them to be booted from the industry. They could for sure lead crews safely, effectively, and efficiently into terrain to get work done. I think guys that are on this level of snowboarding, not just performance-wise, are ones the industry should keep around. In terms of older snowboarders, I think the industry largely overlooks them. It seems that every brand is competing for the exact same customer: 12 to 20 year old males because they are “core”. The problem is that the snowboard population isn’t getting bigger, but getting older. Yet the industry really doesn’t put out any brands that appeal to, say, 24-32 year old shreds. I can think of 2 brands (Automaton and Holden) that have a level of adult sensibilities to them.

The economy blows we all know this, it’s creating all sorts of issues for people. What do you foresee being some of the hardest challenges ahead and is there a light at the end of the tunnel for Automaton?

As a small company, everything is more critical compared to a larger company. A mistake considered small by a large company could be fatal to a smaller one. Right now, the economy hurts us, but not as much as larger companies who are laying employees off or losing accounts. The challenge for us has remained the same: build authenticity. Unfortunately that takes time. I have an industry buddy that jokingly calls it the “war of attrition”. He says that if a brand can operate for 10 years, it’ll catch on, and brands that catch on too quick are destined to crash. For example, both DC and Volcom are huge today, but both were founded around ’93 and it took nearly a decade before they seriously started growing. Then you have brands with a level of authenticity like Vans. They can be sold anywhere, to anyone, and it doesn’t hurt their brand. Vans became synonymous with California culture. But it took them 43 years to build that kind of authenticity. On the short cycle are brands like Grenade and Rome that blew up so freaking huge so fast that unless they come out with a clear long-term plan, they’ll be deemed passing fads. For Automaton, we’re still on that 0-10 year segment. If my buddy’s theory holds true I’ll be expecting that light in 2013.

Anti-Camber is the new hotness in technological advances, are you going to be offering up a reverse camber or rockered deck? Also do you feel it’s a passing trend or the real deal?

I think it’s kind of funny that at SIA 09, the company that brought the world the banana board is serving up reverse banana C2 for 10. Also, I just read an interview with Travis Rice somewhere and he said that none of his competition boards are banana. So when money’s on the line, Trice’s money isn’t on banana! On Johan’s blog (C3) he kept mentioning how no one in the finals of the Baker banked slalom was on a reverse camber deck. Personally, I don’t like the trampoline effect between the bindings, and I like having effective edge on the snow instead of curling away from it. Snow to board contact serves a purpose. What I think reverse camber was really good at was selling because Mervin did an incredible job at promoting it, and I guess it was different enough that it got a lot of press. I also think banana got people to become more open to accepting new design ideas. But until a new design is proven to be a clear advantage, it won’t become definitive like wood cores or plastic bases. I think snowboarding falls victim to too many design fads from carbon in the 90’s, to true twins, to super soft boards, and now banana. I’m definitely pushing for a day when people are focused on having fun and snowboarding style rather than little spec numbers or other hardware gimmicks.

There’s no such thing as the “best” snowboard. I think the 100+ day shreds understand this. But the general public doesn’t. This isn’t skiing, where objective points and race times dictate performance levels. This is snowboarding where subjective style is king. Once the standard formula of the snowboard became definitive (shape, sidecut, wood cores, plastic bases, etc) everything else is just preference. There is no such thing as a perfect board. And this is why there’s a need for a variety of product, just like in any other industry.

But for sure I’m looking forward to the day when people are more concerned about having a good time with snowboarding rather than a bunch of tiny spec numbers that don’t mean a whole lot. I think we could take a huge cue from the skate industry in this respect. Skaters aren’t so concerned about which species of wood their skate is made of. They’re into style.

With the lack of accessibility for most people, how are you combating this to bring in new blood to our sport while still retaining older riders?

This is an interesting question, because I see it as one of the biggest problems with the snow industry in general: it’s too esoteric. It seems that most brands are spending way too much energy trying to gain the exact same customer: 12 to 20 year old males, because they are the “core” snowboarder. But the problems are clear: that demographic 1. Doesn’t have disposable income 2. Doesn’t want to spend money because they think they should be “sponsored” (even though they don’t understand what being sponsored means) and 3. doesn’t have enough people to sustain the industry. And the industry does things that only this specific group of snowboarders really appreciate. For example, most snowboard movies really only appeal to people who are into snowboarding. They really aren’t watchable otherwise. I’m into snowboarding, and I get bored with videos. Tell me a story or give a plot line to follow. Some sort of cognitive stimulation other than trick to trick. I think the Robot Food and Blank Paper Studios films are some of the few that would be able to appeal to a wider audience and potentially draw more interest to our industry.

Automaton definitely needs the young 100+ day shreds for sure. Every brand needs this for legitimacy. We produce only freestyle oriented boards because freestyle is the future of snowboarding. But Automaton also appeals to older shreds (24-32 year olds). It’s an untapped market. One way we do this is simply by addressing mature, universal themes. Take the Time Fighter graphic for example. Kids think that the colors and graphics are cool, so it appeals to them. But older people understand the joke behind seeing a woman’s body with a cougar head on it, and it appeals to them as well. I think it’s pretty silly to see a 26 year old shred rocking gear designed to appeal to a teenager. When did snowboarding turn into a clown show? When did the industry decide that all over prints make snowboarding a better place?

I think it’s possible to open snowboarding to a wider audience, without “selling out”. One great example is Volcom. They didn’t change their brand or product regardless of how large their company got. They make the same ugly-ass clothes today as they did 10 years ago, and it sells. I’m a fan of Volcom and how they get things done. This is like the motocross scene. MX has a huge following, but I’m fairly sure not every single fan launches themselves off 100 foot dirt jumps in their spare time. Or like the music scene. Everyone loves music, but not everyone wants to be a musician. This could be the same for snowboarding.

This year you’ve partnered with SMK snowboard camps over in Spain, was this an easier partnership than say being a sponsor of High Cascade of Windells the two more well known camps?

Yes, and that’s a big reason why we don’t have a partnership with HCSC or Windells. I’ve spent the last 3 summers in Hood, I’ve met Preston and Ingersoll (2 of HCSC’s partners) and clearly they don’t want much to do with Automaton because if they did, we’d be all up in there. The Hood camps have a stranglehold on the summer shred scene and they can command the market. So they have the luxury of picking and choosing for sure, and I’m sure they’re picking partners who can most direct profits for the camp. That’s just business. The European camp structure is different in that they’re not so all inclusive. One of the partners of SMK was in Tahoe this past winter and saw a lot of promise for Automaton in Europe in general. So SMK has taken a lot of initiative to properly bring Automaton to Spain, and we hope this is going to be a solid foothold for the future Automaton European invasion.

“Green” is a word that keeps getting thrown around by a lot of companies in their marketing, what steps are you taking to try and keep your brand eco friendly and what are your thoughts on this trend with companies?

Personally, I think green shouldn’t be a fad, but just the way businesses and people operate normally. At the same time, the reality is that human existence in and of itself is bad for the environment. Humans have the power to change the environment and that’s that. From what I’ve gathered with dealers and such, customers don’t care about green. They’ll just buy what they want, and if the product is green, that’s a guilt-decreasing bonus. I think if companies are serious about being green, they’d apply more eco-friendly practices across their entire product line and business operations. But that’s not really happening either. On the company-side, I run Automaton on the minimum resources possible. Not only is this less stressful on the environment, but it’s also cost saving. Even little things like double printing paper and reusing shipping containers help.

In terms of construction, I’m not so sure how eco-friendly a snowboard can get. I mean, we have to cut down trees for the cores to begin with. And the rest is plastic. Until we develop material alternatives that perform like current materials, and are cheaper and less energy intensive to produce, the bulk of snowboards being eco-friendly will come from the production process. I know that our factory, Elan in Austria, manages their operations very closely to reduce waste and defective product.

You use the tag line “Snowboarding Saves Lives”, what is that about and where does it originate from?

I believe “snowboarding saves lives” to be true. I remember riding at Mammoth back in ’97, and I realized that I’d much rather live my youth shredding and surfing rather than in an office somewhere. I mean, I might as well use my body while I’m still healthy. I nearly dropped out of college just to pursue snow. And because snowboarding helped me realize that the path I was on wasn’t really the one for me, it saved me from living a life full of regret. For me, the experiences I’ve learned from snowboarding have definitely improved my life, and I think that if more people go snowboarding, the life they save may be their own.

If people get anything from what Automaton is doing what would you like that to be?

To answer that question makes me seem kind of egotistical, but I suppose I need to be egotistical to start a company and brand to begin with. Anyone, an artist, musician, whoever that has to create has to have some level of ego to believe that the world will care and respond to their ideas. Definitely I’d like people to see Automaton as a brand that is true to snowboarding: being young, creative, and different. Those are the true values behind snowboarding in the first place. Actually, scratch that. If there’s any 1 thing, then I’d like people to understand that “Snowboarding Saves Lives!” Snowboarding made my life better, and I think it will do the same to others as well. Snowboarding has directly and indirectly influenced almost all my life experiences in terms of where I’ve traveled to, people I’ve met, and the friends I have now. From my perspective, I owe snowboarding everything. Snowboarding owes me nothing. And I have a responsibility to leave snowboarding better than when I came in.